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Author Topic: Forgetting or ignoring history  (Read 5273 times)

BALDWINTRACK

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #420 on: August 11, 2019, 12:11:34 PM »

Shaming people only emboldens them. So by shaming Trump supporters you actually just increase their loyalty towards him. Itís how he was elected in the first place.
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hs

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #421 on: August 11, 2019, 03:45:55 PM »

Yes, Trump is despicable but MSNBC has no problem pointing out when Trump asks that flags be flown at half staff until August 8th, well that must be a hidden message for Neo-Nazis because the 8th letter of the alphabet is H and putting 8 8 together means Heil Hitler. Are you fēēēinís kidding me!!!!

And Deutsch on MSNBC says if you are a Trump supporter you own these shootings as if I had a gun in my hand

Agreed neither conspiracy theories or hatred from the left does any good on this topic.

Although to be clear once again a "contributor" is not necessarily representing an editorital stance (it was not someone regularly employed by the networkb a'la Maddow or Williams etc) making that absurd statement. With that said MSNBC (I think that it was Brian Williams) should have put the kabbosh on that statement/guest right away. MSNBC should have been on top of that right away and they failed.


Completely agree YIG and it was Brian Williams and the person saying this ridiculous thing was a former FBI director (sorry, forget his name) and instead of Williams shutting that rhetoric down, he actually fueled it more IMO.

But then I disagree again with your contributor notion about reflecting the network. In all these instances if the host doesn't shut down this theory (Trump beating Melania, flag half staff until 8-8 etc) then the network IMO is just as much to blame but as you said they did fail on not being on top of it

And Maddow and Williams have much many of their own stupid conspiracy theory statements
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hs

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #422 on: August 11, 2019, 03:47:29 PM »

Shaming people only emboldens them. So by shaming Trump supporters you actually just increase their loyalty towards him. Itís how he was elected in the first place.


I can agree with this as I have been called a racist several times this weekend alone for supporting Trump and I can definitely say it pissed me off and makes me want to vote for Trump more!
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #423 on: August 11, 2019, 04:38:15 PM »

Shaming people only emboldens them. So by shaming Trump supporters you actually just increase their loyalty towards him. Itís how he was elected in the first place.

Agreed.

Now, that of course doesn't mean that people should look the other way at wrongdoings, nor should the media ignore the news that is being made. It is just with an understanding that some people are going to be motivated to respond (i.e. people coming together to patronize the business that is being boycotted by a group a'la Chick Fil A nearly a decade ago, or Patriots fans being galvanized by accusations of cheating whenever said allegations come up, etc). In any case, it is the media's job to report that there is cheating alleged against the Patriots or said CEO "said _______" and the reaction is a boycott from ________. Their coverage of Trump/government/etc should be no different.

Trump in that regard is no different than a wrestling heel. When he does something "heelish" i.e. making on a racist or sexist or homophobic or anti-Semetic or a Islamophobic statement on Twitter, making a corrupt or controversial appointment, nepotism, making an offensive off the cuff remark, lying, bragging (while lying), etc, his foes hate it and call him out while his fans and supporters tend to love it, even when it is what it is (i.e. a racist remark). No different than a fan going to a wrestling event to root for the heel.

Point being that there is give and take I suppose, but where the media needs to be more responsible is reporting relative nothingburgers. For example, Melania holding the El Paso shooting oprphan while Trump gave a thumbs up and had a big smile. IMO this was more bizarre than it was egregious. But even the Liberal (but respected and reliable) Atlantic published an op ed ripping Trump for this, disregarding that the family itself likes Trump and wanted to meet him. I have no clue if in 15 years this kid will see this picture and be happy to see that the First Lady and POTUS are posing in a picture with him, or if he will be angry or sad that he was orphaned just days before this photo op via gun violence by a Trump supporter, but my point ia simply that when the mainstream media whines about this, of course Trump's supporters will double down on their mistrust of the media and their feelings that their President is a victim of sorts.

Hs you got my point then missed it. I was absolutely criticizing MSNBC/Brian Williams for not reacting to what happened. The contributors point still stands. Anyone can go on any show as a contributor and say whatever (i.e. Rick Santorum on CNN, Ed Rendell on Fox News, both of whom are contributors and both of whom are in obvious opposition to the alleged editorial point of view of their respective networks). That is all. But it is up to the network to respond when a contributor says something out of line and even go as far to not inviting said contributor back.

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BALDWINTRACK

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #424 on: August 11, 2019, 05:56:45 PM »

My point is you canít tell people they are jerks for voting for Trump if you think Trump is a jerk. You make it personal towards voters or people who think a certain way politically. Stick to Trump. Not his supporters.
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hs

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #425 on: August 11, 2019, 06:34:49 PM »

My point is you canít tell people they are jerks for voting for Trump if you think Trump is a jerk. You make it personal towards voters or people who think a certain way politically. Stick to Trump. Not his supporters.

Agree completely and the media has missed this point which is only making Trump supporters more determined to see him re elected. When you come out and call someone a racist for whatever reason, IMO, the conversation is over there. You can't have a back and forth and give and take with someone when whichever side says you are a racist and when the media continues to bring it up the racism card is losing all its value

And its all good YIG. I got your point completely
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coach99

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #426 on: August 11, 2019, 07:20:32 PM »

I love how the media always says that Trump is speaking to 'his base'.  Basically, the media follows the Hillary idea that his base is all deplorables and racists.  They do fail to mention that the media is speaking to its base as well...running all the anti Trump stuff. Colbert and Kimmel plays to their base every night. BTW, how do the late night rating  of the networks compare to all the cable shows. Bet Columbo reruns and Game Show Network do as well or better.
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #427 on: August 13, 2019, 12:19:18 PM »

Ratings are terrible but that has more to do with Milennials and Xers watching habits than it does support or hatred for Trump (not unlike soap opera ratings, network news, etc). People are either asleep, and if awake are watching the shows that they want On Demand or streamed or are playing video games. Or just not watching tv (Millennials for instance are reading more than Xers and way more than Boomers).

Between the three shows all three of the big network ones (Colbert/Fallon/Kimmel) it looks like all three are in the .3 range, falling if/when on vacation. Colbert is most liberal while Fallon is most apolitical. Not sure that it impacts ratings, though, as literally no one that I know watches late night tv anymore (regardless of age). Long gone is the era of Letterman vs Leno where one was obviously liberal and one conservative but both made fun of both sides and no one really watched the shows to reaffirm their political beliefs.
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #428 on: August 13, 2019, 01:30:36 PM »

My point is you canít tell people they are jerks for voting for Trump if you think Trump is a jerk. You make it personal towards voters or people who think a certain way politically. Stick to Trump. Not his supporters.

I agree but only to some extent. Of course "shaming" does not help change minds and only divides, but there are circumstances where Trump himself is blameless and it is his base who is egging him on so to speak.

Take the Epstein death. Conspiracy theorists went right after the Clintons. That's a problem, but that is not Trump's fault. Trump supports bought and peddled said conspiracy theory completely unfounded. Anyone who is buying this is an a-hole and absolutely deserves to be shamed, especially if said person is educated and should know better. In an era where correct information is only a click away, ignorance is inexcusable. People are peddling this on the grounds of, for instance, "how could someone commit suicide in jail?" or "suicide in jail!? This NEVER happens" totally ignores stats that this happens more than once/day in the US while 3-4 people/day die in prison. These same people smart enough who should be having conversations about "why are some many people dying in prison" are instead wasting their time and Facebook posts on going after the Clintons (ignoring the obvious that Epstein was even more recently associated with Trump as it is). The two ironies here are 1: Trump did reTweet this, which of course does not make him blameless here, so everything that I just said is looking more hypothetical than anything; and 2, while I have seen that there are "Trump had him killed" conspiracy theories, they have not been nearly as widely peddled or spread by Dems who absolutely HATE Trump. They are out there and again anyone who thinks that Trump had Epstein killed is an a-hole, but my point being that to find about said conspiracy one has to actually search for it, while Clinton killing Epstein conspiracies have beem widespread since minutes after his death was reported.

Where the left is wrong (myself included) is feeling the need to go after a white male who has always voted Republican and probably only voted for Trump because there was an (R) next to his name and supports traditional Republican values (lower taxes, anti-abortion, pro Second Amendment) and is taking the good with the bad because one or all of those values are better than the alternative supported traditionally by Dems. I just expect and want said white male to be intellectually honest about everything, and not rationalize associations (i.e. nothing about what I just said is racist by any stretch, but rationalizing the "send her back" statement as "if you don't like our country then leave" when said target never said anything about disliking her country of legal residence) it definitely makes one appear to be racist, even if not self aware of what they just supported or said. This person probably should not be "shamed" but absolutely should be held to (and should hold themselves to) a higher standard.
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RyanHS93

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #429 on: August 13, 2019, 05:33:33 PM »

Anyone see that wimp Chris Cuomo explode  He gets on Trump everyday of his life and cant handle it coming at him LOL 
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BALDWINTRACK

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #430 on: August 13, 2019, 07:22:47 PM »

Yes now that is not why I have issues with Trumpís behavior. Scum bags like Cuomo should be treated the same way they treat others.
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BALDWINTRACK

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #431 on: August 13, 2019, 07:30:18 PM »

YIG, I do not think the Clintons killed Epstein. I do not think Trump did. I think if anything perhaps he paid good money to be left alone, thatís about as far as that conspiracy goes, if even that far.

To your point though, Trump absolutely shouldnít have posted that. But also realize not all Trump supporters think the Clintons bumped this guy off.

Personally my tiebreaker is health care for non citizens. Iíll probably vote dem to end the madness unless their candidate is seemingly going to try to make this a thing. In that case, Iíll most likely abstain.
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hs

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #432 on: August 13, 2019, 08:05:11 PM »

YIG, I do not think the Clintons killed Epstein. I do not think Trump did. I think if anything perhaps he paid good money to be left alone, thatís about as far as that conspiracy goes, if even that far.

To your point though, Trump absolutely shouldnít have posted that. But also realize not all Trump supporters think the Clintons bumped this guy off.

Personally my tiebreaker is health care for non citizens. Iíll probably vote dem to end the madness unless their candidate is seemingly going to try to make this a thing. In that case, Iíll most likely abstain.


Epstein was friends with the rich and powerful from people in Congress up to the people in the British royal family. News out today is that Epstein taped everything that happened on his little "sex island". Now if these tapes somehow disappear then I will believe someone or some people are covering something up and probably Epstein was "taken care of"
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hs

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #433 on: August 13, 2019, 08:14:16 PM »

Anyone see that wimp Chris Cuomo explode  He gets on Trump everyday of his life and cant handle it coming at him LOL

I just caught a clip of it on the Five and they showed the hypocrisy on him that he called himself that on a radio show back in 2010 and CNN is calling it an ethnic slur even though people used it several times on CNN to call Donald Trump jr, Devin Nunes and Jarod Kushner Fredo. Even Castro ( the one running for president) called Trump Fredo. Cuomo sat by and said nothing when the one regular lady who is always on CNN (sorry don't know her name) called Don jr Fredo and said nothing but now he says it is a racist term and it is just as bad as saying the N word! 

Basically if you go by a liberals point of view, they are all victims and everyone is a racist.
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