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Author Topic: Forgetting or ignoring history  (Read 1359 times)

RyanHS93

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2018, 08:26:59 AM »

Back to the original point though, many of us do not agree with Trump on policy at all.   Can you list the policies please  Most of what Trump wants Democrats said or wanted in the past.  I can actually put video on here

Are u against the new opportunity zones for distressed areas Trump just signed? Got very little coverage   Just want feedback   

He will get another shot at Healthcare  Obamacare was just ruled unconstitutional 
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2018, 10:43:16 AM »

Undecided.

Definitely pros and cons.

The pros being that at least this is a more traditional neocon view on tax cuts/breaks (it could potentially benefit the poor, at least in spirit).

The cons being 1 most that live in those areas are not paying taxes, won't benefit by much of anything "capital gains" 2 for the areas that this actuall works it could drive residents out if property values increase (meaning higher property tax) and 3 the "job and growth" often times does not directly impact the locals in those zones (think of East Liberty or Hill District development...it does not necessarily put many more of the locals to work).

These kinds of things take time to make an impact and to see if the targets (those living in these zones) benefit or are negatively impacted.

Regarding health care yes he may get another opportunity.

I've been saying since the last primaries if someone really truly fixes health care they will be fondly remembered because this is one thing that impacts Americans of all races, parties, economic backgrounds, health statuses, etc. Affordable Care Act was a good effort and has given the general public better than we have had, but does not help all and hurts many as well. A health care system that addresses all of this will be welcomed by all.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 10:48:44 AM by yannessa_is_god »
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BALDWINTRACK

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2018, 11:01:48 AM »

The only way to fix health care is for the government to pay large onetime stipends to companies in return for those companies dropping employee benefits to force people into the federal health care system.
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hs

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2018, 07:54:39 PM »

Typically when the government gets involved in anything, the opposite of what was intended happens. If the government wants to fix health care, they need to get out of the health care business IMO. Same thing happened with college tuition. Government tries to help make college more affordable so they start giving out low interest loans and then what do colleges do? Start charging more because they know kids can get government loans.
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2018, 09:05:22 PM »

Typically when the government gets involved in anything, the opposite of what was intended happens. If the government wants to fix health care, they need to get out of the health care business IMO. Same thing happened with college tuition. Government tries to help make college more affordable so they start giving out low interest loans and then what do colleges do? Start charging more because they know kids can get government loans.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you but what stood out to me is the term "business." Health care being a "business" is exactly the problem. Until we figure that out we will lag way behind most of the civilized world when it comes to health care.
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hs

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2018, 07:00:45 AM »

Typically when the government gets involved in anything, the opposite of what was intended happens. If the government wants to fix health care, they need to get out of the health care business IMO. Same thing happened with college tuition. Government tries to help make college more affordable so they start giving out low interest loans and then what do colleges do? Start charging more because they know kids can get government loans.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you but what stood out to me is the term "business." Health care being a "business" is exactly the problem. Until we figure that out we will lag way behind most of the civilized world when it comes to health care.


I do agree with you on that
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RyanHS93

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2019, 12:47:54 PM »

Anyone?

Thoughts on the shutdown   

China offers a path to a ZERO trade balance  That would be great if it happens

New York   Go there if you need health insurance   Free to anyone even illegals 
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2019, 02:00:49 PM »

This is bad for both parties and all Americans.

What is astounding to me is how much of an impact this is having on the economy. Trump's saving grace in terms of reelectability has been a strong economy up until this point, but every week of shutdown costs the nation 0.13% gdp growth. The average is around 2.5%/year. Do the math and the longer the shutdown lasts the more that it canibalizes that 2.5% number. Not so sure that a wall is worth that.

In terms of blame? Where to blame Trump is the obvious: shutting down the entire government over a campaign promise, no matter how endearing to his base, is not good politics, especially when polling all along has indicated that less than 40% of Americans (and often closer to 30%) "want a wall." A majority, including Democrats, want border security and immigration reform, but even Trump voters who are for these things see a wall as pointless, or at least not worth a 27 day government shutdown. He has kind of painted himself into a corner as well with his political stunt last week "walking out" on Chuck and Nancy. While that kind of stunt maybe worked for him in the business world, this is proof yet again that running the United States of America is different than running a business. Finally, disinformation is not helping the cause, either. Where Team Trump gets some of their statistics that they read on the air is mind blowing, but as I've said becore free speech is obviously alive and well.

The blame for Democrats? As much as Trump has been negotiating in bad faith, they have not made it any easier by their refusal to counter Trump publically (as in even if they make a token offer something like 1 billion for border security with a plan as to why a new wall is unnecessary). While the two sides may be miles apart, their nothing counter to Trump's all request simply is not working towards resolving anything anyways. Their other issue is optics. Nancy referring to the wall as "immoral" was a bad choice of words. Their point needs to simply be that billions for a wall is "wasteful" and IMO that will resonate more with the average American than will statements that look too sympathetic to the illegal immigrants.

The media has not helped as well. CNN bringing on border city mayors claiming that a wall is not necessary while true in some cases probably is not in all cases. They need to show opposing views more so than reinforcing an anti-Trump point. Their agenda is obvious and makes Trump supporters believers in his misinformation. The right wing media on the other hand basically goaded Trump into this shutdown. Before Christmas it appeared that Trump was ready to sign a spending bill for temporary funding to reopen the government, but the Anne Coulters and Rush Limbaughs of the world freaked out over how that would have been a "loss" for Trump. A better leader such as a John Kasich will listen to the people as a whole. Trump is taking this issue and running with it, not unlike President Obama was with health care. I love clicking onto FoxNews.com just to see what story they feel the need to lead with about Ocasio-Cortez getting her nails done or some random Hollywood liberal being accused of a crime instead of actually reporting the news (i.e. Cohen talking, whether you agree you or disagree, is news!) Them becoming Trump era state TV is good for ratings now, but will kill their credibility in the long run.

With all of that said I would love to see cooler heads prevail and end this shutdown soon.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 03:19:51 PM by yannessa_is_god »
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Downriver

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2019, 02:30:24 PM »

Agree completely YIG.  Perhaps the only thing that will end this shutdown will be that enough pressure is applied to Senate Republicans and McConnell to the point they will send the already approved bi-partisan bill to Trump and then override his veto in the Senate.  That would require 20 Republicans to stand up and do what's right for the country and these poor Americans caught in the GOP hostage situation and trying to survive.
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RyanHS93

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2019, 09:09:12 PM »

Great points

GDP will suffer short term but I would think rebound going forwad

The shutdown cost more than the Wall LOL

CNN has another rough news reporting day  Check the Bob Mueller staff response to Buzzfeed  Honestly when Trump leaves office what will CNN talk about

One question Why did Obama build border wall fencing as president  Also in 2013 Democrats approved (voted) for 40+ billion dollars for border security  8 billion intended border fencing     wall call it whatever  I believe Democrat Joe Manchin actually said the 2013 immigration bill democrats approved is everything Trump wants now 

Correct me if wrong
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 09:12:52 PM by RyanHS93 »
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coach99

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2019, 11:25:33 PM »

all this worry about Russians and Putin and our own government has people in soup lines being fed by fast food handouts.
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2019, 08:47:26 AM »

all this worry about Russians and Putin and our own government has people in soup lines being fed by fast food handouts.

Mueller has nothing to do with the shutdown. Not even sure where one would get that correlation. Lots of wasteful spending. The point of the shutdown is arguably to allow the President to wastefully spend.

Attempts at partisan narratives like this are what's wrong with this country and bring nothing to the table.

With that said Ryan thanks for your contributions. Good and fair points. I will dignify your response in its own response...just did not want to let anyone think that I ignored your lucid and thoughtful response and only responded to the above nonsense response.
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BALDWINTRACK

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2019, 01:54:15 PM »

The wall comes down to what I mentioned earlier in this thread. The left, and even some on the right (myself) believe Trump to be a racist. The perception is the main purpose of the wall is racist in nature. That isnít acceptable. The day he called Mexicans rapists and murderers was the day the wall was never getting built. Itís quite simple.

Trump is a racist. He will accomplish nothing in a bipartisan manner because of it. They donít consider him legitimate.
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emm8

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2019, 10:11:29 PM »

The real fight now isn't even Dems v GOP, it's between Trump and McConnell.  The Dems aren't giving in on the wall (not even for DACA).
 They'd rather give Trump 10 billion (or even more) for "border security", but only if not a penny goes to the building of new wall.  That would only serve as Trumps ever surviving statue to himself into the future...like the great pyramids.  If the GOP really wanted a wall, they'd have been able to ram it through when they controlled everything.  They didn't have the votes then, and don't now either.  Trump can only save face by McConnell bailing on the shutdown, and reopening the gov't. with the current offers on the table.  Trump can then claim he did everything he could ("my hands are tied, and you can blame Mitch, now!").  McConnell doesn't want it to go down that way because he'll then become the villain to the Trump base.  Trump is trying to put McConnell in that vice.  McConnell's trying to keep from doing that because as of now Trump is still getting most of the heat.  The Dems are the least likely to cave in the soap opera.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 10:18:20 PM by emm8 »
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emm8

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Re: Forgetting or ignoring history
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2019, 10:28:00 PM »

The wall comes down to what I mentioned earlier in this thread. The left, and even some on the right (myself) believe Trump to be a racist. The perception is the main purpose of the wall is racist in nature. That isnít acceptable. The day he called Mexicans rapists and murderers was the day the wall was never getting built. Itís quite simple.

Trump is a racist. He will accomplish nothing in a bipartisan manner because of it. They donít consider him legitimate.

I don't believe he's a racist, "he just plays one on TV".   :o  ;)  He saw a way to capitalize on a fractured GOP (Conservatives v Tea Party zealots), and saw it as his way in.  He needed that racist vote to get elected, and because he isn't "WINNING" any new converts, he has to keep up the rhetoric in public to maintain that vote going forward.  He just tells them what they want to hear, but he doesn't really give a rats azzz about them.

It was really a 3 party system going into 2016 (Dems, GOP Conservatives, and GOP Tea Party).  Unfortunately, with the backlash to Trump via the midterms, the Dems may be headed to a similar fate, thus creating a fourth party.  Let's call that burgeoning 4th party the "Dem Tea Party Crashers" for now.  The GOP doesn't know how to harness their entire party, and that's why they couldn't get the ACA overturned.  We'll see if the Dems can keep the reins any better.  The newbies are awfully fired up.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 10:45:14 PM by emm8 »
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