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Author Topic: Trump's UN Speech  (Read 235 times)

coach99

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Re: Trump's UN Speech
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 10:09:18 AM »

The term 'discussion' does not exist any longer where politics is concerned...or much else, too, it seems.  You can see by the on campus behavior trying to block anyone from speaking a view that the mob differs with.  In many high schools, social studies classes no longer present topics that the students can discuss....instead, too much time wasted on mandated testing that takes away time  from a students chance learn about free speech and hearing both sides of an issue and how to properly defend your point of view and respect others.
Shouting down...screaming over...not even letting an opposing view even be presented or heard is what has replaced...DISCUSSION.
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yannessa_is_god

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Re: Trump's UN Speech
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 11:39:21 AM »

I think that in some ways you contradicted yourself regarding the "free speech" and "the mob ruling." The mob is also part of free speech. If anything free speech is as alive and well as ever. The President himself proves that almost on a daily basis via Twitter.

To the average Pittsburgher, the Wendy Bell case is still IMO the easiest way to explain free speech. Absolutely does Wendy Bell have the right to post whatever the heck she wants on social media. And absolutely does WTAE have the right to discipline Wendy Bell in what ever way they feel the need to, up to and including termination. WTAE (not unlike Fox News recently regarding Bill O'Reilly) is beholden to their sponsors even more so than their audience. If their sponsors go, then they go. Conversely, if the audience goes, the sponsors go, so if Pfizer is dropping sponsorship of WTAE News or The O'Reilly factor, those networks have the right to do whatever they want or need to do, and you the viewer has the right to do whatever you want or need to do. Sometimes it pays off for the mob (O'Reilly and Bell lost their jobs), while other times it backfires (take Chick Fil'a, in which the boycott ended up leading to dividing Chick Fil'A into a partisan food of sorts, and they seem to be busier than ever with loyal Republicans as well as the rest of the crowd such as myself that either 1. did not choose to boycott a chicken sandwich and/or 2 go there for the food not making it a political issue or 3 can denounce Caffey's take on homosexuality but applaud many other things that that company does for charity and giving back, etc.

So back to regarding college campuses. If said college or university has a paid speaker whom a loud portion of the students denounce, the students have the right to speak up, and the college administration has the right to listen or ignore.

Where I absolutely agree though is "discussion." That art is dead. And I do blame social media for that. In an age where FACTS are closer to us than ever (we don't have to go to a library to look up old facts in books or search newspaper archives) most of us including presumably all of us on PSB have the internet at our fingertips. Yet people will parrot what they read or heard in a clickbait, or repost a meme along the lines of "like if you do not think that people on food stamps should not be allowed to buy lobster" without even thinking about looking for facts or trends etc, just parroting what some a-hole posted to stir the pot. Can we have a discussion about food stamps and welfare? Absolutely. Do we need reform on food stamps and welfare? Almost certainly. Should food stamps and welfare go away? In an ideal society yes but barring a ridiculous boom to the economy or going with outright socialism, probably not. Do any of us discuss this in a safe place? No, because unfortunately someone in this argument is going to operate from a premise that most food stamp recipients eat steak and lobster nightly while the rest of us working class do not. Walk into a Save-A-Lot in Homestead and cheap misc meat Bar-S franks and generic branded hamburger helper with 70/30 beef and $2.50 frozen pizzas are being sold at a much much much much much higher rate than steak (and I doubt that they even sell lobster). My point being that if someone wants to have an argument about welfare reform, there are facts out there that will support both sides of the argument, but what will shut down someone like myself willing to argue is nonsense then doubling down on that nonsense with more nonsense.
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Indians87

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Re: Trump's UN Speech
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 10:04:27 PM »

I think in the case of the college campus, a lot of those "students" aren't really students, but paid protestors causing havoc.  If the student body doesn't want to listen to different views than theirs, DON'T GO!  If the audience is empty that would speak a lot louder to the campus as to who to schedule than violence and destruction...ie intimidation of people who do not agree with you!
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hs

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Re: Trump's UN Speech
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2017, 03:21:03 PM »

I think in the case of the college campus, a lot of those "students" aren't really students, but paid protestors causing havoc.  If the student body doesn't want to listen to different views than theirs, DON'T GO!  If the audience is empty that would speak a lot louder to the campus as to who to schedule than violence and destruction...ie intimidation of people who do not agree with you!

I definitely agree with this. Same thing is happening in St Louis recently with the policeman acquittal that just happened. Most of the people creating the havoc at night, breaking windows, vandalizing businesses etc. aren't even from that area. They should be forced to pay for every penny of damage that they do whether they are from that town or not. Demonstrations and vandalism are 2 totally different things
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